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ted

stilleto

16 years ago

Link

RIGGING FOR A 27 STILETTO

What is the correct amount of play that the shrouds should have on a 27 Stiletto?

Replied: thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Replying to Ted Shapses comments:

Good question.

I'm looking forward to hearing what others say.

First off I make sure my mast ball and the bottom of my mast are lubricated.

Then I raise the mast and adjust my shroud turnbuckle lengths to ensure my mast is centered and my mast rake is what I want.

After that I use my forestay turnbuckle to adjust the tension of both shrouds and the forestay.

To determine what that tension should be, I set it all up and then tension the forestay until I feel my mast rotation start to become inhibited. Then I tighten it just a small bit more.

No matter how tight it is, when the lee shroud is loaded while sailing, the windward shroud will have some slack in it.

On beachcats and even mono-hulls I've seen some folks use a tension gauge to set shroud and stay tension.

I wonder how others do it?

Tom

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Tom House comments: I think you meant the opposite, that the lee shroud will go loose, with the rotating rig it will happen no matter what. If you put a bungi cord to the shroud and pull it foreward or aft, it helps to keep the rig from slamming around.
The less shock load the better. Ron

Replied: thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Replying to Ron Nicol comments:

Yep, that IS what I meant.

Good catch Ron.

Thanks.

I also liked your suggestion about using the bungie cord.

On my rig, we often use it for coastal cruising and remote-site boat camping.

That means we almost never, "wing out" the main for down wind sailing.

Instead, we travel out the main, tighten the mainsheet and we fly a big headsail, a cutter rig setup or a spinnaker.

In most of those cases we leave the running-backstays rigged.

BTW, if the back stays aren't rigged, they "live" all the way forward of the side stays, even with the front beam. They live there because that is what I use as "baby stays" or mast stabilizers as I
step or un-step the mast.

Anyway, when the running backstays are rigged and in light wind conditions ...to prevent slack-rig slamming ... we wrap (spiral) a long piece of 3/8 inch diameter shock cord around each sidestay and its corresponding running backstay. That spiral starts affixed to the bottom of the shackle on the bottom of one of the stays and ends up running about three feet up the stays.

It keeps both the slack running-backstay and the slack sidestay from slamming...and it looks cool. (Very important!)

In very bumpy conditions...like when we were recently caught in the "hellacious" offshore storm....that set up kept the rig from repeated slamming when we were riding the sea anchor or sailing "tight to weather" over huge breaking waves.

In rough conditions I almost always ensure I'm running cutter rigged forestays and runnning back stays in addition to my side stays.

I figure that gives me twice the protection against breaking a stay and having the mast come down at the worst possible moment....which is any time.

We've lost a stay twice on beach cats and once on a friend's Stiletto...and I didn't like it one bit, any of those times....

Anyway, the spiraling shock cord on each side of the the boat also makes it feel a bit more safe and cozy when trying to get in and out of the canopies when changing those on watch and those trying to catch some sleep below.

All we needed on that last trip was some "angry sea" music on the stereo and lots of booming sub-woofer bass and crashing cymbals...

Oh ya...and we needed a stereo.....oh ya and the music because we usually cruise "lean and mean".... (That translates to cheap, fast and without....or translates to forgot it, can't get it, so we don't need it and don't want it.)

On the other hand, at the time, during the storm, I would have traded the spiral bungies and the stereo and music for a place on shore instead of on that pitching boat....

But, alas, that...2,000 miles of driving...a new axle for the trailer.... and a new tranny for the tow car was the price we had to pay for the great fish tacos and the adventures of that trip....

Well worth it.....Sign me up...

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Tom House comments: Tom, Yes I have used that ladder type
technique between the shroud and backstay. It works quite well and really helps keep the rig from slamming around. We have been playing around with composite rigging and are having a hard time keeping the rig tight. Any thoughts? Ron

Replied: lyfordg

Nothing at the moment

16 years ago

Replying to Ron Nicol comments:
The synthetic rigging stretches for a while, and then hardens up. I haven't used it enough to swear by it, but I like it so far after a week of sailing last year on the Stiletto 23. I also like it because the splices you can do yourself and I thought the hand work was relaxing and satisfying.

With the deadeyes from Precourt, I tighten the lee shroud on each tack. They stay plenty tight that way: you can hear a note when thrumming the stay; not sure which note, though. It helps to have an epoxy and graphite coating on the mast step ball and socket. I sanded the ball in the chuck of a drill, and hand sanded the socket and added the coating, which I also sanded for the fit. The mast spins no trouble.

I think that the synthetic seems to absorb shock without affecting performance. I am using Dynex Dux from Precourt. http://www.precourt.ca/

Geoffrey Lyford

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Geoffrey Lyford comments: I think it is good if you know your stuff, but for the average Joe Sailor that expects everything to last a long time, they should stay with 1X19 wire with turnbuckles. I have discussed this with many experienced riggers and they agree for longevity and safety it is the most reliable. It is also less expensive which will make most people these days stay with the tried and true. Losing the rig can cost more than the boat is worth. Good Luck with the composites and let us know how they hold up for you! Ron

Replied: Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Though I rigged a sea anchor (5') and tested it out on some blustery winds (including running downwind at about 5-7 knots and using it to stop the boat, to test the strength) I never got to the point where I felt I needed it. OK, perhaps once I could have, but the lee shore was too close.

So, what did you use?

Replied: thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Replying to Drew Frye comments:

I carry an 8 ft. parasail sea anchor.

I always hoped we'd never use it.

However on that one occasion it sure was handy.

I think we could have kept the boat under control all night with the nose pinched hard upwind to keep the boat speed at a minimum.

However, the sea anchor sure was more restful than having to actively handle the boat...all night long in those very dark and pitching seas.

It was so dark, we couldn't see the waves coming at us until they were breaking on the bow.

If we had kept sailing and the weather had gotten worse, the sea anchor would have probably been lots harder to deploy and we would have been lots more tired and probably more prone to making, otherwise, avoidable mistakes.

On a different occasion, when such a storm caught us during daylight, we turned the boat a ran down wind.

That sleigh ride down wind was nearly enjoyable, because the apparent wind dropped significantly and instead of beating and taking a beating, we surfed at a steep angle down the wave faces, which was great fun, and then headed slightly up near the wave base to avoid burying the bows.

That was very easy boat handling, because the boat's speed and wave speeds were moderated and easier to match when one wanted then taking the seas head-on.

It was nearly like an afternoon stroll in the park, compared to beating.

We figured we could drag warps or put out an empty milk-case or two as a drogue, if things were to have gotten out of hand.

The only draw back was the direction change, changed our final destination...but Santa Rosalina (where we wanted to go) and Mulege (where we ended up) both had fish tacos...so no harm no foul.

I wonder which approach, that is running with a drogue or hanging on a sea anchor would have been the best approach if the conditions would have continued to deteriorate.

Anyone have any thoughts.....??

Under the worst conditions when one is caught and has no choice...is running with a drogue or hanging head on to a sea anchor more sustainable???

I'd guess the sea anchor approach would be better, simply because the boat and canopies are built for "wave on" seas and the sea anchor means one can just ride it out compared to a drogue where one has to steer...

Any thoughts???

Replied: Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Lots of good posts.

There are lots of good threads on the net on drogues, particularly the Jordon Series Drogue vs. a sea anchor. Everyone should read them... and then remember they are written for big boats in the ocean. We are coastal sailors.

1. Do you need to hold station, or do you want to get down wind? Owten a coastal sailor needs to stay off a shore, and only a sea anchor will do that.

2. Deploying when it is wild. A drogue is easier, but we are not talking about the kind of conditions that would cause a big boat to deploy. Brief TSs don't count - you feather for the worst of it, having no time for other action.

3. Breakage of anchor. Some feel a Series Drogue is more dependable vs. failure. We are not out in long storms of great force, so this is not a factor. (the forces on a 1300# boat are not the forces on a 30,000# boat)

There are other factors, but from what I have seen on a Stiletto, you either want a chute or you can get by just sailing down wind under bare poles. Factor 1 rules.

Really, we are coastal sailors, and getting caught in a sustained severe storm should be very avoidable.

My opinion.

Replied: thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Replying to Drew Frye comments:

Drew:

I liked your comments and observations.

I thought they were "spot on".

When I do the 100-150 mile open ocean trips bewteen the mainland and baja, I believe I am "pushing" my Stiletto beyond its intended purpose.

That has been especially reinforced on those two occasions I've been "caught" off-shore, at night, and had to contend with the elements until morning.

Most of the other times, I cove-hop or day sail somewhat near the marina I launched from. Under those conditions, I've always been able to duck back into a protected harbor....and spend the night in a warm dry bed, rather than on the deck of a pitching boat.

Given the option, the warm bed is the better choice, for sure.

Thanks for the comments.

Replied: Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Do you think, maybe?

I have certainly done some long ocean trips, but never more than 45 miles between bail possibilities. Yes, 100+ miles is pushing it, which is in a small way why I got the PDQ. But, today I sailed both - one in the morning, one in the afternoon. I enjoyed the PDQ. The Stiletto was FUN! The PDQ doesn't really get fun until over 20knot winds.

I am going to miss the Stiletto. But, alas, Bermuda and the Bahamas are calling, and that would be a small bit too far.

Replied: thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Replying to Drew Frye & Ron's comments:

Drew and Ron:

I just laughed and laughed at your comments, "....more than intended....do you think, maybe...?"

But then again, I used to do that sort of stupid stuff, using a 15 ft beach cat...sailing from San Pedro to Catalina Island...to boat camp for a week.

Sailing in the busy Los Angeles Harbor in the dark to begin and end 30 miles of open ocean voyaging to Catalina Island....with camping gear strapped to a 15 foot beach cat trampoline, in the fog, on a blustery AM or PM....now that is nuts!!!

However, poor people do "make-do" things with what they have, unitl they are able to do other things...

I certainly learned lots and lots about boat handling, heavy air wah-"hoo" sailing, etc. on all those voyages to Catalina and then using a 19 foot beachcat in Mexico, before I got the Stiletto...

I also learned what NOT to do...generally through close-calls, hard knocks, swimming...and then getting the boat back on its feet.

Ron is exactly correct.... it was the highway mobility, easy of set-up and break-down....and versatility of the Stiletto that sold me...

You are also exactly right....for Bermuda and the Bahamas, etc.....a PDQ, Maldives, Gemini, etc....would be a blast....though there was a guy down your way who routinely did that trip on a MacGregor 36 catamaran...before he finally sold it.

OK it was out of St. Petersburg, Fl...and trips to the Keys....but close enough...

He's got a web page that is kinda fun:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/6187/

...and a few of his sailing logs:
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dunes/6187/keystrip.html

Do you ever need a deck hand or someone to clean the bilge, polish the brightwork or such while you're being cool in a very cool place?

My price is pretty high....!

Ya gotta pay me nothing, treat me bad and work me hard....'cause I'm still working on developing some character and adding to my life's-experience. I'm also trying to make up for all the really bad (but really fun) stuff I did in my youth....

Wait....I'm still doing that sort of stuff....

Is life fun...or what.....?

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Tom House comments: I was laughing about it too, We all do crazy stuff, but we have to stick together. That is what makes this country great. Best Regards, Ron

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Drew Frye comments: But can you trailer your PDQ from Utah to the Gulf of California and back for a week of Fun in the Sun?

Replied: Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Who ever buys my Stiletto, I hope it keeps giving out fun for many years. Though there are always bits and pieces needing maintenance, it is always amazing how the basic structure - hull and mast - seem timeless.

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Drew Frye comments: I thought you had already sold it.

Replied: Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Replying to Ron Nicol comments:

Actually, I had it in the market, thinking I would move-up, took a Gemini out for a ride... and promptly took it off the market. Hated it and loved the Stiletto.

Later I did find a bigger cat I liked, but I will ALWAYS be a Stiletto fan.

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Drew Frye comments: I have only needed it once so far, but it turned out to be the spinnaker after we pitchpoled in the Molekei Channel in 15 foot seas and 35 knots plus. Don't ask me why we still had the chute up, just young and stupid. Luckily I had a sharp knife on my belt and cut the halyard and sheet away before it broke the boat up. Scary stuff, but you learn from your mistakes.
That won't happen again. There is a longer story to this, but I will have to continue it later! Best Regards, Ron

Replied: thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Replying to Ron Nicol comments:

Ron,

In your reply to the question, you talked about your "sea anchor" ...turned out to be the spinnaker after pitch-polling in the Molekei Channel in 15 foot seas and 35 knots plus.

You also said it was scary stuff and you learned from your mistakes and there was more to the story.

I am always interested in learning from others so I can avoid the avoidable and apply what ever others have learned without having to go through it all myself.

When you get a minute, I'd be very interested in the "rest of the story" and what you learned.

Thanks,

Tom

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Tom House comments: Oh yeah, if you race, you can't win if you don't finish! If you cruise you can't live if you don't finish
so Let's Finish and have fun doing it!!

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Tom House comments: It is really quite simple, don't sail over your head! I don't mean the head of your spinnaker like I did, but your capability as a sailor! Some people push the envelope without the knowledge of what bad things can happen at any given time. Therefore my best advise is to reduce sail before the s--- hits the fan and always try to keep control of the situation. If you let some yahoo run you into trouble, it really is your own fault.
Put your foot down and control your own destiny. When it is your boat you have the final word. Be safe! Ron

Replied: Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Replying to Ron Nicol comments:

Youth is fun... if you live through it!

I don't who the quote is attributed to, but it goes like this:

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "man, what a ride!"

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Drew Frye comments: I'll second that, very true that those who go out and do things enjoy life and hopefully live well!

Replied: Tango

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

I had a 32 ft monohull for 26 years, sailed in very strong winds. I carried a sea anchor all those years and never felt the need to use it. I sailed my Stiletto 27 for 2 years and sailed once upwind in a relatively light 30 kts wind: I was really scared, as I felt that the wind , channelling between the hulls under the trampoline and cockpit, was lifting the bow right out of the water and feared that the boat, light as it is, might topple from bow to stern (and I have seen a video where this nearly happens).
I was thinking that, as unseamanlike as it seems, a sea anchor might be carried (barepole) from the back of the boat rather than from the bow, to minimise the lift. I would like to hear comments on this from people who actually used as sea anchor on the Stiletto.

Replied: thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Replying to Paul Lavallee comments:

Having used the sea anchor on the Stiletto...I liked how the sea anchor rode off a bridle tied to the bows.

The bridle allowed me to adjust the angle the bows were being impacted by the oncoming boarding waves.

(During the 6 or 8 hours we hung on the sea anchor we had lots of waves boarding up to the mast base and a number of them washed across the entire length of the boat. The worst few put knee deep white water washing off the back of the hard deck.)

Having the sea anchor off the bows allowed much of the boarding white water or (sometimes) green water to dissipate and vent off the front tramp and front part of the canopy housing and canopies before hitting us at the back of the hard deck...as the boat's reserve buoyancy progressively kicked in.

I think the weight, direction of travel and force of the boarding seas actually held the canopies closed and pinned the canopies to the canopy housings.

Another consideration is the boat's shape and construction design makes it so that the boat's buoyancy increases progressively from bow to stern. If the waves are coming from stern to bow, the boat's buoyancy decreases progressively stern to bow.

For my money (and safety) I'd perfer seeing the bows momentarily buried than seeing the sterns momentarily buried in boarding seas.

I've also noticed with a sea anchor off the bow... because the sterns are round, that shape and all that buoyancy allows the stern to skid into alignment as the boat tries to realign itself with the sea anchor's rode as the wave hits the boat's bows and the boat momentarily makes way astern when hanging to a sea anchor.

If tied to the sterns, I'd be concerned boarding waves would hit the sterns hard, bringing them around, compared to hitting the bows, and the boarding water from the rear would have a chance to lift or break a canopy, filling the boat... To further agravate a bad situaiton seas from the rear could cause the bows to dig in rather than skid to realign the boat with the wave and sea anchor...when the boat is momentarily making way after a boarding sea hits to stern.

That could get hairy...fast....!

With all that being said, if I wanted to make way...in hairy conditions, I'd rather drag a series drogue that I could use to control direction, boat speed and stability, while also allowing me to helm the boat.

In my experience, hanging on a sea anchor allows no helming at all... while using a drogue not only allows for helming...it requires one to helm the boat.

That's my two cents.

Does anyone else have some thoughts...???

HANGALEN

STILETTO 27 CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES

16 years ago

Link

SHROUDS STUCK UNDER DIAMOND WIRES

Here are two vids I posted (one was already linked here).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEFgApTpq-s&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dAtn3qLEWY

The boat is "Fly Girl" I charter her in the VI.

A while back I had questions about my compression tube undoing itself. I followed advice here, tightened my tramp until there was a slight bend in the tube and haven't had a problem since.

Next challenge: My port shroud is getting caught behind the diamond wire turnbuckle up by the mast tang. I think it does it when it's on the leeward side and loose. I feel like my rig is pretty darn tight, regardless, it is chafing on the D wire turnbuckle and getting caught. Something must be wrong?

I climbed up the mast and closed the T buckle jaw with a vice grips and then taped it. That lasted a few weeks and now we're back to a mast dropping scenario. The turnbuckle closed but the pin is still as long as the Tbuckle, maybe I need shorter pins?

I measured the shrouds and they are the same length, so why only one side? More mast rake? Less rake? Aftermarket diamond wires in the wrong place? The shrouds are set up with one big jesus shackle through the tang and then three shackles for each shroud/forestay below that.

I thought about installing a bungee to pull the leeward shroud forward so it can't get behind the wire but still, something doesn't seem right?

Han
http://flygirlvi.com

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Han Winogrond comments: As I said before, you should replace them with only a fork fitting at the top and turnbuckle/toggle at the bottom. This will solve the problem.
Give me a call and I will get them to you ASAP. Ron

thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Link

BOATS TOO COSTLY TO KEEP ARE LITTERING COASTLINES

Great friends are great to have and there are great people all over the place. That's what makes life what it is....and the other ones give us opportunity to practice patience and how not to be.

Anyway....

I thought the following was an interesting read.

Are any of you guys out there seeing any of this sort of thing in any of your areas???

"Boats Too Costly to Keep Are Littering Coastlines"

What a headline in NYTimes! Not April Fools...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/business/01boats.html?p... [link]

Boat owners are sandpapering over the names and filing off the registry numbers, doing their best to render the boats, and themselves, untraceable. Then they casually ditch the vessels in the middle of busy harbors, beach them at low tide on the banks of creeks or occasionally scuttle them outright.

“We never needed a law before,” said Gary Santos, a Mount Pleasant councilman.

Not that having one is necessarily proving much of a deterrent. Mr. Santos took a spin on a friend’s motorboat the other day and saw a newly abandoned catamaran within seconds of leaving the dock.

Hmmm.....

The article implies that Charleston Craigslist is larger than usual with "dozens of boats for sale every day."

I wonder if that is fact or just newpaper spin?

stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Link

NEW FRIENDS

We were blessed by the presense of a very nice couple that makes my heart sing with joy today! Buddy King and his wife showed up at our
yard and bought a nice 27'Stiletto. After spending time with them it was apparent how much they love each other as well as sailing.WOW
It is great to see that right now. We need great men and women in times like this. The Kings are my friends forever!!! Ron

stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Link

CANOPY CLONE

Yes I see what you mean. Imitation is the best form of flattery. Gee I wonder who thought that up 35 years ago? Go figure!

Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Link

SO, WHO IS GOING TO POST VIDIO OF A STILETTO?

Is there any good underway footage on-line? I have search u-tube and missed, if it is there. Meanwhile, we are forced to watch video of the V-8 cat, which looks fun of course... but it doesn't look a whole bunch different than an S27 moving out, and I've got to believe that Ron has seen a lot more action out of his boats than this... hint, hint.

Come on someone. I've got a second catamaran, but I KNOW it can't keep up with the Stiletto!

Replied: Peter

Modified Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Replying to Drew Frye comments: Back when Stilettos were being built, there were several videos made. One, a promotional video about the boats, even won some award for its quality. The best one, from a performance sailing standpoint, was made by a guy named Woody Pelt. He took the footage at whichever Nationals it was where a storm spun up in the Gulf and canceled all but two days of racing. On the first of those two days, most of the 23 fleet flipped in the first race - I flipped twice - once before the race and once 3 minutes after the start. Most of what Woody put together was wild, wet sailing. Ron or his older brother Colin are the ones most likely to have copies of whatever was made. I have a VHS copy of Woody's video with some extra outtakes of my 23 flying upwind uni-rigged, and some other old Formula 40 stuff, but lack the technical skills to share it any other way than to invite you over for a beer and a viewing...

Peter

Replied: Joehouston

23' Stiletto

16 years ago

If someone has Stiletto sailing vids I have the rig to rip them onto the 'net.

Replied: thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Replying to Peter Wormwood comments:

Here are a couple of videos I ran across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dAtn3qLEWY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OUYXm6WrD4&NR=1

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Drew Frye comments: Now that you are retired why don't
you do the video and write a story on Buzzelli. It would be great!

Replied: Clayton

Stiletto 27 SE

16 years ago

Replying to Ron Nicol comments: Doesn't the canopies look JUST like the S27 canopy? That looks way too familiar.

Clayton

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Clayton D comments: I am not sure what you mean, but for those who want video clips, we have our hands full with sheets and winch handles, so it is difficult to get good footage while operating the vessel. It would be good if you come down with your camera and skiff and take some pictures.

Replied: Clayton

Stiletto 27 SE

16 years ago

Replying to Ron Nicol comments: My comment was about what LOOKS like a Stiletto 27 canopy on that boat in the video. Just forward of the rack/seat/what ever is a smoke/black area that is (in my opinion) just like the Stiletto canopies.

Just an observation.

Clayton

Replied: Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Replying to Ron Nicol comments: Yeah, retired. Good one.

I do think even a few modest vidio clips might help sell boats. Not everyone knows how well they move. Too bad.

laouen

catamaran

16 years ago

Link

V8 CATAMARAN

Hello Stiletto Sailors

Please have a look at our V8 catamaran sailing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NzWU4QUSGk

Best regards and happy sailing season

laouen de Kersauson-Virusboats-Britanny

Joehouston

23' Stiletto

16 years ago

Link

STILETTO 23 PICS

Anyone know how to get in touch with Jack@impactmiami.com

I can't seem to get a return email or phone call.

Any alternate email or phone number would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Joe

Replied: Joehouston

23' Stiletto

16 years ago

Communications issue is resolved!

thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Link

SAIL STORAGE TIPS

This came up on a different forum, but I thought it worth talking about here.

The question was: What is the best method for storing sails: folding, rolling or flaking for off season storage.

For me, the answer is: It depends.

For my mainsail, I find it best to ensure the sail is clean and dry and then I roll it. I loosen all battens and then use the middle batten to roll the sail. Once rollled I then place the mainsail into a long storage bag or sleeve. The sleeve is then placed in a dry location protected from moisture, birds, insects, rodents, etc. I also ensure nothing is stored on top of the sleeve or anything that can rub against the sleeve.

I used to fold/flake the main. However, over time I found the sail main would wear, weaken and eventually tear along the fold/flake lines

Since I've begun rolling the sail for storage, I've not had the problem.

For my head sails, lappers, hooters, spinnakers, etc. I used to fold/flake. However, I expereinced the same problem with wear, weakening and eventual tearing along the fold/flake lines.

More recently I ensure the head sails are completely dry and I use a stuff sack for "between use" or seasonal storage.

Since I've made this change, I've not experienced the wear, weakening and eventual tearing along the fold/flake lines. That is probably because the fold/flake lines are completely random, when using the stuff sacks.

Does anyone else have any thoughts or advice???

Wow, look outside, it's Spring and time to get the boat ready for the season....waaa hoooo...!

Replied: Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

No, I have never had any storage damage beyond minor mildew. One interesting occurrence, though.

Several years ago in the spring, after a 2 month absence from sailing due to a minor bad injury, I went into the starboard bow to retrieve a sail that had rotated its way out of reach. As crawled to the tip of the bow I found that another sail bag had become home to a family of wasps, which I did not notice until I was on top of it.

Though I did not get stung, the next few minutes were stimulating.

Though the wasps had built a small home on the sail cloth it did not damage the sail.

stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Link

TAPER PINS

You should seat the pins firmly with a brass hammer. This means hit it hard, not like a tap, like a bang until it is in ALL THE WAY BABY!

stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Link

SUPERIOR SAILOR

A superior sailor is best defined as one who uses superior judgement to stay out of situations requiring the use of his/her superior skills.

HANGALEN

STILETTO 27 CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES

16 years ago

Link

COMPRESSION TUBE UNDOING ITSELF

Thanks for all the comments everyone. It seems my first solution should be to tighten the tramp (I thought it was pretty tight). I think I'm running a tight rig but what is "tight" on a rotating mast? I also do need to check my pins.

Peter mentioned a hose clamp? Would that simply go around the tube at the starboard end?

Thanks again to everyone.

Replied: thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Replying to Han Winogrond comments:

Yep, I use a hose clamp on the slotted end of the compression tube...I tighten it just enough to hold it in place, in case the tube rotates to an unwanted position allowing the tube to fall out.

The hose clamp just covers the outer end of the tube across the open part of the slot and just tight enough to hold the hose clamp in place.

It's just a bit of insurance....in addition to making sure the tramp is good and snug in the first place.

I find the tramp loosens a bit after it is first put on the boat.

That probalby comes from warming up and perhaps getting wet.

So, after the tramp has been installed and snugged tight...I do a short sail make sure the tramp has been warmed in the tropical sun of a way cool place..and had some folks put wieght on it to stretch it out a bit.....then I recheck it and re-tighten the lacing.

Life is good....and it's Spring...almost.....

Yee haw....!

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Han Winogrond comments: Tight means firm so the rigging is not slack when the boat is not loaded. No matter how tight you make it with the rotating mast and the mast bend on the Stiletto, the leeward shroud will become loose. This is not a problem, and you can put a bungi cord from the shroud to an eystrap to keep it from whipping around. This is especially important with composite riggging because the shock load can cause failure.
If you tighten the rigging and tramp using 1/4" low-stretch line, you should not have any more problems with the compression tube.

thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Link

SPLICING INSTRUCTIONS

This site give pretty good splicing instrucitons.

http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?page=28

Any one have anything better???

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Tom House comments: I am good at many things but slicing is an art that looks easy when the master is showing you how, like welding aluminum, then you try it and it a clump of s--- so you really have to practice it and learn it especially if you are going to use it for standing rigging. Billy Johnson is quite good at it so I would take his advise if that is what you want. Composite halyards and rigging, as well as sails take more time to maintain properly and
if you don't treat them right they will let you know the hard way!
Sounds Familiar huh? Or you can go old school with wire and turnbuckles and be good for a few years. Yeah thats the ticket!

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Ron Nicol comments: I meant splicing, but some slicing will be going on as well!

thouse

Stiletto 27 Std. Editon

16 years ago

Link

HERE A SAMPLE FLOAT PLAN

I thought this was a pretty good "Float Plan" sample...particularly the instructions given to the person concerned that the boater has not returned and did not make a "Safety Check-in" as expected.

Anyone have additional suggestions or a better sample??

http://www.thelog.com/FloatPlan/USCGFloatPlan3.pdf

DOWNLOAD FLOAT PLAN Color Version with instructions (.pdf file) This single full page float plan has all the information needed including a second page bonus which has a boating emergency guide.

BobKlein

Stiletto 27 standard

16 years ago

Link

CAT FRIENDLY OPEN SPORTBOAT REGATTA IN FLORIDA

Sailing Anarchy is organizing a regatta in Florida and it's open to cats. While I can't get down there for it i thought some of you southern boys might want to show them boys what they are missing.

"The Sailing Anarchy Cheap-Ass Worlds (CHAW) Sportboat Invitational Regatta. Or the SAYC frick you bowl. Or something like that. Sportboat regatta, because the ramp launches are very nice, very close, and very free. This part of Florida because it is directly across from St. Pete, the previous event. This time of year (March) because it worked when Miami was still around, and it slots in very nicely between St. Pete and Charleston. Free storage from St. Pete until the event. Booze sponsor for open pour pool parties. Everyone staying at the same inexpensive hotel, two feet from the boats, and the event HQ. A good local band at the tiki bar after the free booze is gone. Fun, camaraderie, no attitude, big wave, sportboat racing, that owners will walk away from having spent a fraction of what they spend at any event - and the parties will obviously be much better.

Location is Fort Pierce, just south of Vero Beach, about 3 hours due East of Tampa. What do you want to see? Would you come? Vipers, Melges 20 and 24, Open, Laser, Ultimate 20, K6, and so on.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=83197&hl=

rolson

Stiletto SE

16 years ago

Link

HALYARD UPGRADE

My spring project this year, while I have the mast down, is to switch from wire to spectra halyards for the Main & Jib. What type & size of spectra do you recommend for the Main & Jib Halyards? I will have to change out the sheaves as well. I have the jib box figured out but is there a Masthead sheave box for the main halyard that would work best?

Replied: Peter

Modified Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Replying to Bob Olson comments: I haven't tried rope for my main halyard, but I do use it for the jib. I switched away from a wire jib halyard because I hate the feel of the meat hooks when a strand of the wire breaks. For some reason, I have not had the same problems with the main halyard. The stretch talked about by the others doesn't seem to be a problem with the lower loaded jib halyard. However, if you care at all about performance, spend the money to get spectra, or one of the other minimum stretch ropes to avoid having the luff of your jib sag between the hanks when the sail loads up. If your halyard sheave has been scored by the wire, replace it - the scores on the sheave will cut into and wear out the rope halyard. I use a Harken 210 for the halyard sheave assembly. It is a little narrow, so I have the cover stripped off down to just above the jammer. I can't remember what material my halyards are or whether they are 5/16" or 3/8" diameter. You might be able to find out what I have by calling Jean at SECO South in Largo, FL. They are a good, reasonably priced rigging supplier that I have used for years.

I use Antal rope clutches for all but my main halyard with no problems. On both Cindy's and my boats the halyards lead through turning blocks back to the jib sheet winches. This gets rid of the downhaul tensioner on the tack of the jib - moving the jib down and forward. Down gets the foot of the sail end plated on the trampoline for extra drive. Forward opens the slot between main and jib, reducing drag.

Peter

Replied: Drew.Frye

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Another way to reduce the wear and stretch issues associated with the change from wire to fiber is to make the main halyard 2:1. You will need a small block (a bullet block is enough) and a pad eye in the track very close to the top. This will reduce the strain on the line by ~45% and reduce the stretch by the same amount.

Is the weight savings important? No. But it does make the sail a lot lighter on the hoist. My sail hoists smoothly and generally drops without encouragement. 2:1 just makes it lighter.

I used a Kevlar blend for years without removing the cover; it lasted ~ 7 years in that service, with periodic attention to the top splice.

Replied: bjohnsen

Stiletto 30

16 years ago

I like technora for main and jib because it is cheap and performs well. It does not like the sun so it needs to be covered or otherwise protected.

I had stripped technora halyards on my SR 27 for 5 years an they were fine. I protected them by hoisting them into the mast when not sailing and keeping the tail in a sheet bag. I spiced cover where the halyard turned at the top of the mast and where the halyard was cleated. Light and cheap. I do my own splicing. For me it is much cheaper than wire to rope and no meat hooks.

I replaced the wire to rope halyards on my Stiletto 30 with 5/16ths technora core polyester cover. For simplicty, I left the cover on the main and spin halyards. To save money, I stripped the cover on the jib halyard and used the stripped cover as the tail. Since the jib is on a furler and remains up most of the time, the uncovered halyard lives inside the mast. Like on the SR 27, the halyard is covered at the exit sheave and the sheet stopper. The technora core is about 5 feet longer than the "I" dimension. When hoisting, you are using the hollow tail except for the last few feet. This allowed me to use a 36 foot peice of line. This setup worked fine on my Stiletto for a year before I (with natures help) took the boat out of service to replace the beams. I plan to reinstall the halyards when I finish rebuilding the boat. I expect they will last for years. I do not remember exactly what I paid for the halyards but it was a west marine close out and was less than $1 per foot. I may upgrade the main halyard to 2 to 1 and recyle the main halyard as a second spinaker/screecher halyard. If I do I will probably use 3/16ths vectran terminating in an eye splice for the working portion and something thicker for the tail. Again, I will cover enough of the top so that when reefed the halyard will be covered at the masthead sheave.

Vectran is somewhat more expensive than technora has similar strech characteristics and tolerates sunlight better. You can probably count on two years use in the Florida Sun if unconvered and unprotected longer if covered.

Spectra is a good choice for spinaker halyard. I would not recommend for main or jib halyard due to creep (elongation under continuous load)

Replied: BobKlein

Stiletto 27 standard

16 years ago

Replying to Bob Olson comments: I'm going to second Ron's comments. I converted over to composite halyards (Spect 12 w/ Poly sheath. Even went so far as to strip the jacket off the top half. I dropped the sheave and remachined it on my lathe for line. One season of sailing hard and I ate through two jackets (Lewmar rope clutches have an appetite!). the cat mains have HIGH halyard loads. I just don't see the minute weight savings as reason for the expense.

good Luck

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Bob in RI

Replied: cliff

Stiletto 30

16 years ago

Replying to Bob Olson comments: Hi Bob
I used the schaefer 34-32 exit block for the jib and mast head reacher, good for 1/2" line and my main I used a Harken sheave with bearings.I have the boat set up with Sta-Set-X 7/16" for my main it seem to stretch at first then met its limit.May not be the best set up but works fine for my use plus I got a great deal on new halyards.E-Bay

Replied: stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Replying to Bob Olson comments: I don't recommend the composite halyard for the 27. I have used technora and other expensive brands and still get more stretch than the wire/rope set-up. The cost is high for no improvement in performance. The main halyard sheave is a custom aluminum wheel with a bushing. It will handle up to 1/4" line or 3/16" wire. We have these available and I would replace it while you have the rig down, whether or not you replace the halyard as original or with a composite line. Ronstan no longer makes the original size jib sheave box, so if you change it you have to widen the slot and redrill the rivet points. Let me know if you would like to order any of these items. Fair Winds, Ron

FredN

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Link

CANOPY REPAIR

I have a large crack of about 12 inches in one of my canopy covers and I would like to know the best way to repair it. It was glued at one time but of course that did not hold. I am thinking that I could do a fiberglass job with cloth on both sides but did not know if it would ahdere to the plastic properly.

Any suggestions would be welcome

Thanks
Fred

Replied: Tango

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Replying to Fred Neinast comments:

This subject has been on the forum many times and you should have a look at the comments. In short, it is possible to 'repair' the canopies with one layer of fiberglass/epoxy on both sides, but you have to make the surfaces rough by sanding, otherwise the epoxy will not hold properly.

For the interior paint, any good adherence paint will do the job ( I used exterior water-based paint 3 years ago). You have to be aware of two things: - paint fumes are extremely dangerous in these restricted volumes ( use proper ventilation). - Once painted, you will not be able to glue anything on the painted surfaces, unless a thorough sanding has been made, which is not easy.

FredN

Stiletto 27

16 years ago

Link

PAINTING THE INTERIOR OF THE HULLS

I am looking to paint the interior of my hulls and wanted to know the best type of paint to use. There is no carpeting that needs to be removed and the surface to be painted is in pretty good shape but very dirty. I will clean it as best that I can and am looking to apply the paint with a brush and roller. I know that spraying will leave a better finish but I do not have the equipment to do a spray job.

Any sugestions?

Thanks
Fred

impactjack

a 23 and a 27

16 years ago

Link

BIG ANNUAL MIAMI TO KEY LARGO REGATTA!

Drag your boat down for some high flying fun!
MIAMI to KEY LARGO '09!

http://www.miamiyachtclub.net/regattas/miamikeylargo/race.htm

stiletto

Stiletto 27 GT

16 years ago

Link

FIXING PROBLEMS

Sometimes there are easy fixes, like running a tighter rig, and then
having the rig set up properly for your purpose can help. Most of the time it takes looking at the problem and coming up with a solution so that the problem never happens again, Hopefully!!!
I think the upper diamond connections to the tangs should be forks that have no toggle. If you have toggles on the diamonds on the
rotating mast, the shroud may catch on it if it is not tight and
completely and properly taped off. Running a tight rig is equally important. You are not sailng a Hobie Cat, the Stiletto is big and light, so you end up with more crew, gear and beer than the boat weighs. Be careful of that. Even though there is no plaque on the side of the hull saying maximum weight and gear, you must use common sense and seamanship skills to keep your boat safe. These basic concepts may save your life.